The Connected Mom

Becky Harling (00:05.345)
Welcome to the Connected Mom podcast where we have real conversations helping you to connect more deeply with God, more empathically with your fellow moms, and more intentionally with your child. I'm Becky Harling, your host, and I am so delighted that you've joined us today. I have my amazing co-host, Sarah Wildman with me today. Hey, Sarah, how are things going in your neck of the woods?

Sarah Wildman (00:31.412)
Oh, they're going well. It's a lovely fall and enjoying a lot of beautiful days, which is nice. But you know, you open the podcast, Becky was talking about how we have real conversations. And I think real when I think of some of the friends I've talked to lately, is there is just a lot going on. Some of it's heavy, but moms can all relate that there's just a lot. And I think sometimes that can really...

be a barrier to finding joy in life. So I'm super excited about our guest today because I think she's gonna bring some great reminders to us, right?

Becky Harling (01:07.817)
Yeah, she is. And you know, I, I agree with you, Sarah. I'm hearing heaviness all over the place and you know, just moms trying to keep up, trying to connect with their kids. And then you throw in difficult and challenging life circumstances. Our moms are saying, okay, is joy just a myth from the Bible? Because I hear I'm supposed to be joyful, but I want to be real.

And so one of the commitments that Sarah and I have made is we will not make you feel guilty on this podcast, right Sarah? We feel like there's enough guilt for mothers, so we will not make you feel guilty, but we do want to help you move closer to this joy life that Jesus has promised us. And I am really excited to introduce to you our guest today. Her name is Linda Evans-Shepard. I've known Linda for...

Sarah Wildman (01:38.564)
Right. No guild zone.

Becky Harling (02:00.129)
Wow. How many years Linda, maybe like 15, 20 years? I don't know. Anyway, she's probably, yeah, we're both getting younger all the time in case you're wondering. And Linda has written just all kinds of books. I can't even keep track of them. She is the founder of Right to the Heart, the awesome, the awesome,

Linda Evans Shepherd (02:06.224)
Probably.

Becky Harling (02:25.273)
writing, speakers, bureau. I mean, she does everything, girls. She's also a mama. But today we're talking to Linda about a new devotional that she just came out with that was so good, I bought it for one of my friends. It's called Make Time for Joy. Welcome, Linda.

Linda Evans Shepherd (02:44.27)
Becky, Sarah, I'm so glad to be here.

Becky Harling (02:47.969)
You are amazing girl. You're a rock star. And I wonder sometimes you talk about making time for joy. And I wonder how you make time for everything that you do. But you've, right, right. We do need her secrets. Absolutely. So you have tangled with tornadoes. I didn't know that about you, Linda, until just very recently. I know we've had.

Sarah Wildman (02:59.53)
That's why we have her on. We need her secrets, Becky.

Becky Harling (03:13.689)
tornado threats here, actually. The funny story about that was the alarm went off. Linda and I both live in the same state, by the way, as you're listening. And we got alerts on our phone that there was a funnel cloud and it said, please go to the basement. Immediately, my husband, I don't know what yours is like, Linda, went out on the back deck to watch it. So there's that. So Linda, tell us about your tornado experience.

Linda Evans Shepherd (03:37.582)
You got it.

Linda Evans Shepherd (03:43.298)
Well, this tornado story has a lot of secrets in it on just how to have joy. And here's what happened. I'm driving to Denver celebration from about 40 miles away, and I'm headed toward Denver, and I'm going down the freeway. And what I'm gonna do when I get there is I am going to host a Christian television program. I was a volunteer host at the time. And so...

I'm at a certain point in the dry where I just begin to talk to the Lord about the show. And so I said, Lord, how do you want me to open the show? And he said, I am with you in the storm. I heard it very clearly inside my heart. And I was listening to K-Love radio and they had Agnes Dayo come on and they were singing Holy, Holy is the Lord. And I looked up from turning up the sound.

and there was a storm right in front of my car. It was like a storm that you see as you're driving and you're like, oh, look, a rainstorm. I'm gonna run into it. I'm thinking, oh, look, there's a storm right there, Lord. I am so glad that you were with me. Well, my driving partner just in the middle lane was an 18-wheeler, a tanker, and he and I are both going 80 down high 25, and we're headed toward this wall.

Becky Harling (05:03.549)
Okay, yep.

Linda Evans Shepherd (05:07.53)
never realizing it was a one mile wide wedge tornado. And I don't mean the kind with the tiny point, I mean the kind where the point's been clipped off and it is on the ground. And so we both hit that wall at the same time and the whole world disappeared. It looked like somebody had taken a slush machine and just

Becky Harling (05:30.841)
Wow.

Linda Evans Shepherd (05:34.894)
plummeted with a fire hose at my window. I thought my window was going to break and I looked at the there was nothing next to me. I couldn't see the 18 wheeler. I couldn't even see the hood of my car, but I could hear holy, holy is the Lord. And so I'm singing it holy and I'm like, boy, I'm glad you're with me in the storm, Lord. And I kept driving and I'm like, this is just too much when suddenly

Becky Harling (05:52.96)
Oh, I love it.

Sarah Wildman (05:55.276)
Whoa.

Linda Evans Shepherd (06:04.666)
I popped out of the wall and I entered this beautiful misty clearing. It had a little swirly mist here and there and I'm still singing. Holy, holy is the word. There are cars hiding under the nearby underpass. There was that 18-wheeler and we just kept trucking right on through. We drove for about a mile and there was another wall. I'm like, this is crazy. I'm in a hollow storm.

I've never even heard of a hollow storm. And I thought, well, I can see sunshine through this wall. And I popped right out of it with the 18 wheeler. No big deal. And I kept driving down the road when Caleb said, eh, there's a tornado at I-25 on the DeCoto exit. And I'm like, but that's where I am.

Sarah Wildman (06:57.79)
Oh my goodness.

Becky Harling (06:58.06)
Well you had a great opener for your TV show!

Linda Evans Shepherd (07:02.52)
Exactly. I went in and I told, well, when I got into the station, my producer said, Linda, our tornado just hit Longmont. I said, no, I was just in Longmont. There was no tornado there. However, there was this weird hollow thunderstorm that I drove right through on the freeways. You went, oh.

Sarah Wildman (07:25.965)
Hahaha

Sarah Wildman (07:29.537)
Oh my goodness.

Linda Evans Shepherd (07:31.546)
Yes, so but the thing is I drove through an F3, F5. It's debatable about what strength it was at that particular moment. I think I was right where it struck for the first time. It went all the way to Cheyenne. I drove through an F3, F5 tornado and I didn't even know it. And the reason I think I didn't understand is because I was worshiping the Lord.

Becky Harling (07:57.689)
Hmm. Yeah. I love that, Linda. I love that so much. So okay, you had that tornado, but you've also had some other kinds of things that have felt like tornadoes. I know a little bit about your story. And as mothers, I want you to share a little bit about Laura and that story and what God

Sarah Wildman (08:04.431)
Oh.

So Linda, when we're thinking about our homes, you know, I can relate to feeling like I'm in a tornado.

Linda Evans Shepherd (08:16.139)
I love you.

Linda Evans Shepherd (08:26.23)
Well, yes, that was not my only tornado. I've had many life tornadoes. And as you said, I am a mom and I became a mom in 1986. I know I'm probably old enough to be some of your listeners' mama. They're like, that's when I was born, I wasn't born yet.

Becky Harling (08:27.205)
taught you.

Becky Harling (08:35.661)
Mm-hmm.

Becky Harling (08:46.808)
That's okay. Me too.

Linda Evans Shepherd (08:50.35)
1987, I had the most beautiful baby. She looked just like the Gerber baby. Remember the old Gerber baby picture with drawing? She was adorable and she was so precious. And I felt so blessed to have this beautiful girl. And one day we were driving down the freeway. A lot of my stories start out like that. When we're driving, driving down the freeway when our car...

Becky Harling (08:56.347)
Mmm, yep.

Becky Harling (09:12.057)
Maybe you should stop driving.

Linda Evans Shepherd (09:20.114)
unexpectedly went out of control. I tried to I tried to get control of it by steering into the spin and pulling out of it and just then we started to spin again and we hit an SUV almost head-on and that's when I realized that my daughter had been thrown out of the freeway and that's when I crawled out of the gaping hole in the back seat and found her.

And that's when I knew that our lives had been changed.

Becky Harling (09:52.677)
Hmm, hmm, for sure.

Sarah Wildman (09:54.772)
Wow, how old was your daughter at that time, Linda?

Linda Evans Shepherd (09:57.87)
She was 18 months old and the official diagnosis was permanent coma. In fact, they said vegetative state and I just would not receive that. I just kept saying my God is bigger than that. My God is bigger than that. And do you know a year later we brought her home in vegetative state. A year later when we put her newborn baby brother in her arms for the first time.

That was the moment she woke up, not from vegetative state, but from the deep coma that she had been in. And she came back to us after having spent a year in heaven with Jesus, she was able to tell us that.

Becky Harling (10:44.453)
Hmm. It's such an incredible story, Linda. I, you know, and I know this is hard, but tell our listeners the rest of the story. When did she go to heaven?

Linda Evans Shepherd (10:46.458)
and

Linda Evans Shepherd (11:02.058)
We were so blessed to have her in our home until the day after her 30th birthday. And she was such a light and such a love, but the medical profession didn't agree that her life was valuable and they actually worked with the insurance company to find a loophole so that they could secretly take her off her medication. And that is why she did.

She passed the day after her birthday. They did apologize later and they said oh, we didn't know it was her birthday But I had a lot to deal with at that point because Yeah, someone took my daughter from me they took her But in the end I've been processing this now for seven years And in the end I feel like the Lord used it

Becky Harling (11:38.957)
Hmm.

Sarah Wildman (11:41.964)
Oh my word.

Becky Harling (11:45.153)
Yeah, you did. I remember that.

Becky Harling (11:51.232)
Yeah.

Becky Harling (11:55.947)
Mm-hmm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (12:01.186)
to bring my daughter back home.

Becky Harling (12:03.173)
Hmm. I love that one. I love the way your faith, I mean, I know we're talking about joy, but joy is not distant from faith. And I love the way your faith has carried you through this because I've watched you move through all of this. And you know, your faith in Jesus and in his goodness has really carried you through.

Linda Evans Shepherd (12:31.998)
It really has and one of the things, one of the secrets, it's even a secret for time management, it's just to continue to give your plans, your time, your pain, your worries, your fear to God.

Becky Harling (12:48.965)
Mm-hmm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (12:50.838)
That's the way you get through the unexpected. That's the way you get through the overwhelm.

Becky Harling (12:57.625)
Yeah.

Linda Evans Shepherd (12:58.69)
That's the way you get through the tornadoes of life. And then you just say this, thank you, Lord. When we can turn our hearts to praise, we will find joy in unexpected places.

Becky Harling (13:01.849)
Mmm.

Becky Harling (13:15.415)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Wildman (13:17.496)
Have you found that being an author has helped you do that, Linda? I can imagine, I mean, you've had all kinds of stories that God's brought you through, but what does being an author do to help you keep that joy?

Linda Evans Shepherd (13:33.418)
Well, first off, I think it probably helped my husband more than me because I was a volcano of words with no one to share them with but my husband. He was very happy when I began to write down all the things. He's a quiet engineer. It was too many words for him.

Sarah Wildman (13:44.748)
I love that.

Becky Harling (13:45.029)
That's great, Linda.

Becky Harling (13:52.306)
Yeah, I'm sure.

Sarah Wildman (13:52.425)
Yeah.

Linda Evans Shepherd (14:00.47)
But not too many words for my readers and to be able to put it on paper To share my adventures because I've had many adventures to share them on paper And then to go back and to see how the Lord has moved in my life In fact, I know you don't know this but this week My publisher rebroad out my new book or my old book praying through hard times this is the third rendition of it actually had another title at one time and

Becky Harling (14:16.75)
Hmm.

Becky Harling (14:27.726)
Oh, I love it.

Linda Evans Shepherd (14:30.91)
I went back to my website, to my URL, got2pray.com, and I clicked through on the old title, it's still there, and I have all of these little videos that I had made that are right there when you click on the book, or the old cover of the book, and there's me about 15 years ago talking about my daughter, talking about life.

Becky Harling (14:58.393)
Hmm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (14:59.534)
talking about the things that had just happened in my life and I was really blown away by that. To see the.

Becky Harling (15:05.145)
Hmm. There's such beauty in the long journey. You know, Eugene Peterson wrote, it's a long obedience in the right direction. And there really is beauty in that. And your life really illustrates that, Linda. And so in your new book, this Make Time for Joy, which I, I absolutely love that title, um, because we...

do have to make time for joy. Since you mentioned time management before, I think a lot of moms are like, how do I make time for joy? You know, I'm running kids to soccer, to preschool. I'm, you know, trying to keep up with my job. What does that look like?

Linda Evans Shepherd (15:47.434)
Really, I think you need the word of God in your life. And I know you're busy. And that's why I wrote this book. So what I did is I looked up every scripture I could find on joy. And I thought about all the different elements of joy, the things that come against our joy, the things that enhance our joy. And I did an individual Joy Bible study on each of these topics. So for each topic, there's about 60 topics in the book.

Becky Harling (16:00.791)
Mm.

Becky Harling (16:14.073)
Hmm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (16:17.602)
there's three to five scriptures that relate to that topic. And then I took those scriptures and I paraphrased them into a prayer. So, I paraphrased them into a prayer. So you worry about, oh, I don't know the right words to pray. Well, how about praying scripture back to the Lord? Those are the right words. And not only that, those are powerful.

Becky Harling (16:28.103)
I love that. Say that again. What did you do with the scriptures?

Becky Harling (16:35.746)
Yes.

Becky Harling (16:43.895)
Yeah.

Linda Evans Shepherd (16:47.838)
powerful words. So in just five minutes you can read one of these prayers and you can read the scriptures and you can get that supernatural connection to the Word which is powerful and is like a cutting sword and can encourage your inner being. So that's what this book is all about.

Becky Harling (17:02.51)
Mm.

Becky Harling (17:09.507)
Mm.

Becky Harling (17:12.609)
Yeah, I love it. And it is really well set up because for those of you that are busy mamas, this is a no-brainer. I mean, it's delightful, it's based on the word of God, and it's very easy for you to use. That's what I mean by no-brainer. It's not that it didn't take brains on Linda's part to write it, it did, but it's a no-brainer for you because

It's very easy for you to do. Yeah.

Sarah Wildman (17:45.404)
So, Linda, I'm thinking about moms who might be able to relate to your story. Maybe there are some really special circumstances with taking care of their son or daughter.

Um, one of the things we love to talk about on this show is about connecting with our kids at whatever stage, whatever place they're at in life. How would you say that joy can help us connect more fully with our kids? Maybe you have some examples from your own life, but how does joy actually help us connect as a mom?

Linda Evans Shepherd (18:16.014)
Well, first off, I'm going to remind you that I have two children. I have Miss Laura, who was severely disabled, and I have Mr. Brainiac, Mr. Jim, who was much smarter than his father and I put together. And so I had a challenge of connecting. I brought the kids to the pediatrician one day, and she looked at Laura, she looked at Jimmy, and she said...

Sarah Wildman (18:19.472)
Yes, yes.

Becky Harling (18:20.15)
Yes!

Sarah Wildman (18:25.312)
Mm-hmm.

I missed your Brainiac. I love it.

Becky Harling (18:28.612)
Hahaha!

Becky Harling (18:35.302)
Okay.

Sarah Wildman (18:35.325)
Wow.

Linda Evans Shepherd (18:44.835)
Oh my.

Becky Harling (18:46.382)
Hahaha

Linda Evans Shepherd (18:49.358)
And that was a good statement because I had this I had to love them both and so with Laura Connecting with Laura and I want to say if you are the parent a mom of a disabled child You were picked for that role that is a special role and Just love just let love be your guide. You're gonna have a lot of disappointment

Becky Harling (19:04.81)
Yes.

Becky Harling (19:08.453)
Hmm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (19:17.154)
things are gonna always be the way you want. People aren't going to always understand, but Jesus always understands. And he's the one who put that precious, adorable little child into your life. And so he understands. And then if you've got a little brainiac,

Becky Harling (19:36.933)
Hmm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (19:40.518)
Mine is now an engineer at one of the top five companies. I'm not going to say the name. And you know, if you've got somebody like that, you have to meet that child where he is and for Jimmy and for Laura, for Jimmy, he would not leave the house until I put my little hand on his head and blessed him. I blessed him every day and every night.

Sarah Wildman (19:47.385)
Oh yeah, nice.

Becky Harling (20:05.273)
Hmm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (20:11.134)
We would sit together on his red racing car water bed. And we would read, we would read Christian books, and we would read the Bible, and we would read devotionals together. And he grew up, and even though he's at a place where God is not in the forefront, he still relies on the Lord. And I still pray blessings. He's 34, y'all.

Becky Harling (20:17.177)
I love that.

Linda Evans Shepherd (20:39.65)
and I still pray blessings over him almost every day. And Miss Laura, she just grew up in the love of the Lord, and we just allowed love to rule her life. And Jimmy and Laura loved one another. One day little Jimmy said, if my sister hadn't been disabled, do you think we would have sibling

And I was going to say, uh, yeah, but before, before he could say that, he said, you're right, mom, we just love each other. We would never have sibling rivalry.

Becky Harling (21:08.133)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Becky Harling (21:20.389)
So sweet. I love that. And Linda, I love that you brought out that we never stop praying for our kids. I mean, I like you, I'm now a grandmother. I don't know. Do you have grandchildren yet, Linda? No. Well they're the dessert at the end of a long parenting journey. And I have said this before on The Connected Mom. So my kids are all adults. They're all married.

Sarah Wildman (21:20.888)
Sweet.

Linda Evans Shepherd (21:35.794)
No, not yet.

Becky Harling (21:46.969)
they still need my prayers. I can't tell you how many texts I get or phone calls I get from these four grown children saying, hey, mom, I know you're going to be on your knees tomorrow morning. Can you pray for whatever or whatever? And praying through all the grandkids and praying over marriages and praying blessing over our kids is a huge calling. And so for those of you that are young moms, start now.

Start now praying scripture over your kids. For those of you that are listening and maybe your kids are raised, it's not time to stop. Even I kind of believe, I kind of believe that even when we get to heaven, we're still going to be praying for our kids because God doesn't want us to stop doing that. And so I want to encourage you to keep praying. Okay. Back.

to joy. We could talk to you about a lot of different topics, Linda. So, some of these moms, they haven't faced the kind of horror you did on the freeway, but they have faced other challenging circumstances. Maybe their husband has walked out the door and they're left alone to raise the kids, or maybe their child, as you mentioned before, has some other kind of special need.

Sarah Wildman (22:40.981)
Yes.

Becky Harling (23:04.537)
How do they get from that place of excruciating pain to joy?

Linda Evans Shepherd (23:11.114)
You know, it's a matter of letting go. And even at my old age, I'm still in the process of letting go. And so what that looks like is you have this pain. Let's say your husband walked out, you have this pain, you have this betrayal, you cannot let go of it. Your heart is burned into this pain. But the Lord is saying, give that to me. And so just keep trying, just keep.

Becky Harling (23:17.721)
Hahaha!

Linda Evans Shepherd (23:40.686)
saying, you know what, Lord, I am giving it to you. I am letting go of that. I am putting it into your hand. Five minutes later, you might have to pray the prayer again. You may have to pray the prayer all day, every day, but at some point, you're gonna go, oh, wait, I can trust God with this. God, you can be my husband, not like with the wedding ring, but your provider, the person that directs your path.

Becky Harling (23:51.077)
Mm-hmm.

Becky Harling (24:01.007)
Mm-hmm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (24:09.666)
that keeps you safe. You can trust Him and just say, Lord, I give this to you. I give you my fear. A lot of us have fear. I mean, I had to be a mama bear. I had to. I stood up to those doctors for 30 years. And I, you know, they finally tricked me, but I stood up to them and I kept my daughter safe and it was a struggle. It was hard. But

Becky Harling (24:09.977)
Hmm.

Becky Harling (24:15.348)
Mm.

Becky Harling (24:26.953)
Mm-hmm.

Becky Harling (24:34.349)
Mm-hmm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (24:37.57)
God was my strength. And when it comes to joy, we know that Nehemiah 8 10 says, the joy of the Lord is my strength. But it's hard to have joy when your heart is filled with fear. So just continue to let go and declare that. And by declare, I just mean say out loud and believe that this prayer is for you. The joy of the Lord is my strength. The joy. Say that every day.

Becky Harling (25:04.27)
Mm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (25:06.91)
And your own ears will hear yourself. The joy of the Lord is my strength. When I'm thinking about the guy that ran the orphanage in England, George Mueller, I almost said Andrew Mueller. George Mueller, he had 110 kids and they didn't have any means of support because he ran the orphanage by faith. But he said,

Becky Harling (25:18.969)
George Mueller. Yes.

Sarah Wildman (25:20.713)
Mueller. Orphans.

Becky Harling (25:28.325)
That's a lot of kids.

Linda Evans Shepherd (25:35.638)
He would not leave his study. He would read the word of God until he got joy. So the joy of the Lord was his strength, and it was his faith, and it was the way he got things done. If he can do it, we only have maybe one to eight kids, but if he can do it, we can do it.

Becky Harling (25:43.875)
Yeah.

Sarah Wildman (25:44.757)
Wow.

Becky Harling (26:00.601)
Yeah, I'm thinking that the joy of the Lord and his time in his study also kept him sane with a hundred and something kids in that orphanage. Imagine the chaos with that. Anyway, I mean, there's a lot of chaos in our house when all our grandkids are over and I love it. Don't get me wrong, but there's 14 of them and I cannot imagine a hundred. That would be a lot to deal with. Well,

Sarah Wildman (26:00.665)
Wow. Totally.

Becky Harling (26:28.969)
Linda, joy can replace our fear. And I think we need it to. I really want to encourage those of you that are listening to pick up this book. It's called Make Time for Joy. And the way Linda has structured it, it's very, very easy for you to pick it up every day. You could pick it up first thing in the morning. You really could do it last thing at night before you go to bed.

do it in the car line. We had a whole episode about car lines, didn't we, Sarah? So for those of you that are in the car lines for hours, picking up your kids or dropping them off at school, you could keep this in your glove compartment and pull it out and do these. The topics are so great in here. There's one for when you feel unloved, something about pain or when you are feeling fatigue. Now I know you mamas are never tired, but-

Sarah Wildman (27:07.969)
Mm-hmm.

Becky Harling (27:28.617)
If per chance you ever get tired, that's a good one to turn to. And they don't have to do these in order, do they Linda? They can pick and choose according to topic.

Linda Evans Shepherd (27:38.638)
That's right. Just go through the directory and go, whoops, I gotta have that one today and flip right through it. And it's there for you.

Becky Harling (27:44.608)
Yeah!

Yeah. So if our listeners want to get in touch with you, which I hope they will, because your story is indeed incredible, how do they do that? Where do they find this book? Where do they find you? All the things.

Sarah Wildman (27:47.816)
Mm.

Linda Evans Shepherd (28:01.302)
Well, the book is available at bookstores and online stores everywhere, and they can go to greatjoybook.com and they can read more about the book. And they can contact me.

Becky Harling (28:10.189)
Oh, that's cool.

Yeah. And yeah, you have such a ministry of prayer. I mean, you have prayed in so many situations. I have heard you pray for countless women. I have seen you write books about prayer. I mean, that's kind of the central focus of your entire ministry. And so I would like to invite you.

right now while we're on the air to pray over our mamas before we close. Would you do that, Linda?

Linda Evans Shepherd (28:43.57)
I would love to do that. Dear Lord, You love these mamas. You love them so much. Lord, I just ask that collectively we as mamas just give you all of our junk. All of the fear, the worry, the heartache, the stress, the overwhelm, and we just push it out of our hearts and lay it into your hands. And we say this. We trust you.

We know that you were gonna get us through and we ask that you would replace that with your joy, the joy that you are with us, the joy that you are for us, the joy that you've got it. Help us just to relax into a new lifestyle of trusting you no matter what as the joy of the Lord is our strength. And we pray that in the power and authority.

of the name and the blood of Jesus. Amen.

Becky Harling (29:47.149)
Amen. Hey friends, thank you so much for joining us today for this episode of The Connected Mom. And we want to invite you to join us again next week. We upload a new episode every week and every conversation is designed with you in mind. We

really want to help you to connect with God more deeply, with your fellow moms more empathically, and with your child more intentionally. And hey, if you would be so kind as to subscribe to The Connected Mom, you'll never miss another episode. And you can also like us on your favorite app for podcasts. So thanks for joining us today and we'll talk to you again next week.